Sola Scriptura Christian Liberty
All of my posts on this Blog are meant to be Conversation Starters. I never want to be the final word on any topic. I'm trying to put ideas out there that hopefully others more knowledgeable and skilled then me can expand on.
Tuesday, March 25, 2025
The Tabernacle of David
Who was Muhammad’s Daddy?
Wednesday, March 12, 2025
Sabians of the Quran were Ancient Arab Baptists
The problem with thinking it’s in any way derived from how Sabeans of Yemen were referred to is that the Quran does refer to them explicitly in Surah 27 and Surah 34. So they are distinct. The "I" coming right after after the B is what really makes it distinct.
Daniel Chwolsohn in 1856 suggested it’s derived from an Aramaic word meaning “To Dip” or “To Baptize”. This fits well with other theories I support about some of the Quran being at least indirectly of Aramaic origin. Another proposed Etymology is that it comes from the Arabic word Sabi meaning “to turn to” and thus means “Converts”. Perhaps both are true, perhaps it’s a pun combining them to refer to people for whom Baptism and Conversion are the same, for observers of Believers Baptism.
Others interpreting the meaning of the word in that Baptism context argue it refers to the Mandeans. The Mandeans rejected Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus and thus did not revere any of the Books necessary to qualify as “People of The Book”, nor are they Monotheist by even the loosest sense. Also they only existed in Iraq back then and in fact didn’t come into contact with Muslims till after they Conquered parts of Iraq in 633-640. It seems they only started calling themselves Sabians in order to co-opt this Quranic term and appropriate “People of the Book” status.
To repeat myself, I am not a Landmark baptist in the doctrinal sense of thinking that an unbroken chain of Believers Baptism back to the Apostles matters. But I do believe there have always been Christians who came to the correct conclusions on Believers Baptism and other distinctly Baptists views like Congregational Polity and Freedom of Conscience.
The World Translated “Christians” in English Translations of the Quran is Nasara or Nasrani. Nazarenes is a term used for Christians in Acts 24:5, by the late 4th Century Epiphanais of Salamis and Jerome were using it specifically for Jewish Christians who still kept Torah in Aleppo and Bashan. These Narzarnes do teach Jesus was the Son of God and do consider Canonical the entire New Testament and consider Paul a valid Apostle unlike the Ebionites they are sometimes confused with. But I do think Ebionites may have also called themselves Nazarenes. Liturgically Aramaic Christians sometimes use a variation of Nazarenes instead of Christians even while being Gentiles with no Torah observance at all.
The term Mishrikun often translated as “Idolaters’ or “Pagans” actually means “Aosciators”. I can’t entirely agree with those who argue Paganism was already dead in Arabia well before Muhammad was born, but Christianity or Judaims had become the majority and dominant religion all over the Peninsula. Shirk “Associating a Human with Allah” is something the Quran considers the Jews, Nasara and probably Sabians all guilty of in their own way. But it’s possible each are smaller groups not as bad as the unqualified Musrikun which I think mainly referred to the Chalcedonian and Miaphysite Christians who held the actual political power in Western Arabia. The Ghassanids and Banu Kalb were both Miaphysites and the Kingdom of Kinda were likely either Miaphysite or Chalcedonian as Byzantine Foederati.
The idea that the Sabians are particularly tied to the Psalms came from later Islamic speculations. While the Psalms of David are the only Book besides the Torah and Gospel specifically mentioned in the Quran no verse says there were a people of the Palms specifically.
It might be that the Sabians aren’t linked to a specific Book because they are the ones who have a high enough view of Scripture to revere them all equally. While the Jewish-Christian Nazarenes prioritize The Gospel of Matthew and the Jews the Torah.Mean while the High Church Mushrikun placed their ecclesiastical tradition above Scripture entirely which might be why they’re kind of excluded from being People of The Book. Another trait the Sabians would today share almost only with Credo-Baptist Denominations.
Proving Muhammad existed using 7th Century Jewish Apocalypses
Below is Copy/Pasted from the Wikipedia Page for Sallam ibn Mishkam as it read on March 12 2025 in the Debate with Muhammad Section.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallam_ibn_Mishkam
When Muhammad arrived in Medina in 622, he was eager to convince the local Jewish tribes that he was a prophet like the ones in their own Scriptures. Two Muslim converts, Muadh ibn Jabal and Bishr ibn al-Baraa, urged Sallam to become a Muslim: “When we were pagans, you used to pray for the Prophet’s help to defeat us and warn us that he was coming, and you described him to us.” Sallam was unimpressed by Muhammad’s claims. He replied that Muhammad “has brought us nothing we recognize and he is not the one about whom we used to tell you.”[1]: 257
Sallam was among the rabbis who debated with Muhammad. On one occasion, he asked: “Is it true that [the Qur’an] is the truth from God? For our part, we cannot see that it is arranged as the Torah is.” Muhammad protested that the Qur’an could be found in the Torah and that neither man nor jinn could have forged it; and the Jews challenged him: “Bring down to us from Heaven a book that will clearly demonstrate its identity [by its similarity to the Torah], otherwise we will produce one like [the Qur’an].”[1]: 269–270 When no answers to their serious questions were forthcoming, the Jews began to tease Muhammad with facetious questions such as “How did God begin?” and easy ones to which he gave a non-traditional answer, such as “How many plagues did God send on Egypt?” Sallam apparently had a great talent for asking annoying questions and creating confusion “so as to confound the truth with falsehood.”[1]: 239–270
In late 623 or early 624 the Jews made a formal statement of their joint unbelief in Muhammad’s mission. Sallam and three friends asked: “Do you follow the religion of Abraham and believe in the Torah and testify that it is the truth from God?” Muhammad replied: “Certainly,” but added that the Jews had “added to the Scriptures, and broken its Covenant, and hidden what you were ordered to publish. I dissociate myself from your additions.” Sallam and his friends replied: “We hold by this Torah and we live according to its guidance and the truth. We do not believe in you and we will not follow you.”[1]: 268
Next I shall Quote two Jeiwhs Apocalypses Scholars believe were written in the 620s. Both are organized as a set of Ten Signs and in both the section I shall Copy/Paste comes from the Seventh Sign. But I want to clarify that these Apocalypses are very poetically playing fast and loose with the contemporary events they’re trying to connect to Bible Prophecy. In all likelihood nothing else about Armilus is based on Muhamad and nothing else about Nehemiah Ben Hushiel is based on Sallam ibn Mishkam, just the specific exchange in question.
First is ’Otot ha-Mašiah (Signs of the Messiah)
He will come to the wicked Edomites and say to them: ‘I am the Messiah! I am your god!’ They will immediately believe him and elevate him over themselves as ruler, and all the descendants of Esau will join forces with him and come to him. He will march forth and subdue all the regions. He will say to the descendants of Esau: ‘Bring before me my revelation which I gave to you!’ They will bring him their ‘frivolity,’ and he will respond to them: ‘This is indeed what I gave to you!’ He will address the nations of the world (saying) ‘Believe in me, for I am your Messiah!’ They will immediately put their trust in him.
At that time he will send for Nehemiah b. Hushiel and for all Israel, saying to them: ‘Bring to me your Torah and bear witness to me that I am God!’ Suddenly they will grow fearful and be perplexed. But at that time Nehemiah b. Hushiel will arise with thirty thousand warriors from among the forces of the tribe of Ephraim, and they will bring a Torah scroll and read aloud before him: ‘I am the Lord your God! You shall have no other gods before Me!’ (Exod 20:2-3). He (Armilos) will say to them: ‘There is nothing like this at all in your Torah! Come and bear witness to me that I am God just as all the gentile nations have done!’ Immediately Nehemiah will rise up to oppose him.
Second is Ten Signs.
He will gather all the nations, and then say to the descendants of Esau: ‘Bring to me the Torah which I gave you ….’ All Israel will suddenly be confused, but Nehemiah b. Hushiel will arise, he and thirty warriors with weapons (concealed) beneath their garments, and they will take a Torah scroll and bring it to him (i.e., to Armilos). They will read out before him: ‘You shall have no other gods before Me!’ (Exod 20:3). He will say to them: ‘This is not (my Torah) at all!’ Nehemiah will say to him: ‘You are no deity, only Satan!’
This isn’t a similarity that can be caused by one source plagiarizing the other, both are biased memories recalling the same even from different perspectives. In Both are the Jews who are skeptical of this new Prophet and in both the Prophet rejects in the Torah when he doesn’t find what he’s looking for in it.
The Islamic Sources are, I believe, a more accurate account of what really happened in terms of using the real names of the players involved and probably more accurately representing what doctrine Muhammad was claiming to be.
The Jewish sources are more accurate in their depiction of Jewish Doctrinal Belief but also less concerned with actually verbatim recording what happened and have a desire to conflate Muhammad with Christianity and Rome and exaggerating the nature of the Prophet’s claims to make the scale more epic.
I have argued that Muhammad was an ally of Rome at this time.
The Sefer Zerubabel written slightly later will not identify Armilus with Rome or Edom but instead make him a Quedarite and depict him as making a Stone a place of Pilgrimage.