All of my posts on this Blog are meant to be Conversation Starters. I never want to be the final word on any topic. I'm trying to put ideas out there that hopefully others more knowledgeable and skilled then me can expand on.
Tuesday, November 7, 2023
Arminian Universal Salvation
Saturday, May 7, 2022
The Reformation and the Resurgence of Democracy
It is pretty well known that what we commonly call THE French Revolution was not the last French Revolution. But what if I told you that, from a certain point of view, it wasn’t the first either? It can be argued that the French Wars of Religion of the 16th century were a French Revolution that was Protestant rather than Secular in nature. But tragically like many of the later Secular French Revolutions it was betrayed by the very person who won it, Henry Bourbon converting to Catholicism was the Clerical Equivalent of Napoleon being Crowned Emperor.
This post is a sequel of sorts to Capitalism is Atheistic in Nature, I’m not titling it as a direct parallel because I can't claim Democracy wouldn't exist without Christianity, Ancient Greece definitely had it, and I believe so did Sumerian Kish before Etana. I mentioned how Capitalism loving New Atheists and YouTube Skeptics love to credit the rise of Capitalism to the Secularism of the Enlightenment, but they also claim credit for Democracy and like the Christian Capitalists of the Eisenhower era try to paint Capitalism and Democracy as inseparable. But the truth is Capitalism and Democracy are actually incompatible, the only truly Democratic socio-economic system would be Anarcho-Communism, and the only acceptable Representative Democracies are Socialist Republics like Cuba and Vietnam.
That post also acknowledged that some people blame/credit the Protestant Reformation for Capitalism. The Renaissance and the Enlightenment had both Protestant and Secular sides to them (also a Catholic side but the Catholic Renaissance and Enlightenment was like the New Deal and Huey Long, attempting to appease the people to keep them from running into the arms of the revolutionaries). And those two sides were not always mutually exclusive, you had Christians who were largely Secular in their mindset or methodology, and non Christians unafraid to draw on Scripture to support their ideas like Thomas Paine in Common Sense. My thesis in that prior post was that Capitalism is chiefly the product of the Secular side, while here I shall argue that the Return of The Demos was mostly the product of the Reformation.
Part 1: Ecclesiastical Polity
Church Governance was not the initial main point of dispute upon which the Reformation started, but it very quickly became an important topic of debate. There are primarily three different positions on Church Governance, others do exist like the weird system Methodism has, but they were devised much later and can be argued to be simply fiddling around with these three.
Episcopal Polity: The form used by The Church of The East, The Oriental Orthodox, The Eastern Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans (Episcopalian as a name for a denomination usually means Anglicans in the United States), and some Lutheran Churches.
Presbyterian Polity: The form used by the Reformed Churches of the Continent in Switzerland, The Netherlands and parts of Germany as well as the Huguenots and Protestant minorities in France. But Presbyterian as the name of a denomination refers to the denomination founded by John Knox which became most popular in Scotland, they are today also the largest Christian Church in South Korea.
Congregational Polity: As the name of a specific denomination refers to a subgroup of the Puritans that included the founders of Boston MA and Oliver Cromwell., but it was also the Polity used by most of the most well known Puritans including the Plymouth Pilgrims, the Baptists and the Quakers. It also seems to apply to Anabaptist sects like the Mennonites, Hutterites and Amish. It can be hard to determine with Proto-Protestant groups that no longer exist, but it looks to me like the Waldenses and Taborite were probably Congregational.
Episcopal Polity is basically Clerical Monarchy, Presbyterian Polity is Clerical Oligarchy or Parliamentarianism, and Congregational Polity is Clerical Democracy. There are of course differences within each form as well, for example what Separates Catholicism from other Episcopalians is viewing The Bishop of Rome as beyond just a Duke(Bishop) Archduke(Archbishop), Prince(Cardinal) or King(Patriarch) but as essentially the Emperor of The Church.
I like to describe my own personal position on Ecclesiastical Polity as Congregationalism with Presbyterian Characteristics. The reason being that the most well known Congregationalists, those who bear the name and Baptists, seem to be classified this way chiefly for their localism over regionalism but sure seem to have Episcopal Characteristics in how the Local Pastor is viewed. But even in Presbyterian Denominations it still seems like the weekly Church service is usually one person giving a speech everyone else listens to, which I view as a monarchial tending problem itself. And that criticism itself parallels criticisms of modern Secular Democracies. In many ways I think the Quakers are doing most things better then anyone else.
All three words used to define these forms of Church Government are Biblical, so the first step to seeing who is Biblically Correct is looking into how these words are used in The Bible.
Episcopas is a Greek word that is most literally translated Overseer, but in translations like the KJV more often becomes Bishop, and KJV only Independent Baptists usually use Bishop as the chief Biblical synonym for what they mean by Pastor. Interestingly the Spartan title of Ephor is derived from the same Greek Root but in a different dialect making it equivalent in it's essential meaning.
Presbyter is a Greek word that is usually translated Elder but I actually feel like Senior conveys the intended meaning better at least in how The New Testament uses it. Better yet, if I were based on my perspective as a Christian who watches a lot of Anime asked to consult on a Japanese translation of The Bible, I would advise them to translate Presbyter as Senpai and Newtron as Kohai at least in 1 Peter and the Pastoral Epistles.
Neither of these words was meant to refer to an office in any kind of hierarchy, the word “office” is used, but it means a job or function not a position of authority. I’m a supporter of the House Church Movement, which means I’ve observed how there were no Church buildings till the 3rd Century, the Early Church met in each other’s homes. Any context where Episcopas seems to be in use in a very singular sense, as in this Church at this time seemingly only has one, it’s probably the owner of the house they’re currently meeting in, the host of the meeting is naturally also responsible for organizing and overseeing it. But in other contexts like Acts 20 and 1st Peter even many who defend the Episcopalian developments of the 2nd through 4th Centuries admit that all the Presbyters are Overseers in those passages. However I feel the word Deacon is also used interchangeably with Episcopas, Deacon means a servant.
When 1st Peter is talking about elder and younger believers, I don’t think he means by how long it’s been since they came out of their mother’s womb, but by how long they’ve been a Christian. Anarchist Philosophers have argued it does not conflict with Anarchism to defer to the authority of someone more experienced than you on a certain subject, and for Christian Anarchists that is how Divine Authority is reconciled, God is older and more experienced than all of us but Scripture actually does depict Him as okay with His decisions being questioned. This is a form of that, Peter is saying that newer believers should seek guidance from those with more experience, but also stresses how those elders need to take seriously the responsibility that comes with that.
William Tyndale chose not to use the word Church in his English Translation of The New Testament, during this early period some Protestants were concerned the word Church itself was perhaps too inherently owned by the Catholic Church, and it was in fact never a good direct translation of The Greek. So the Greek word Ekklesia he translated as Congregation, and even in the KJV (which is largely just a revision of Tyndale) and more modern Bibles "Congregation" instead of Church is still used a few times. Because it is a pretty good literal translation of what Ekklesia means, but not the only way to translate it.
You see the word Ekklesia was previously a big part of Greek politics and discussions of politics where in those contexts it is often translated Assembly. The Ekklesia was in Athens and other Greek Democracies the word for the gathering together of the citizenry to discuss an issue and then vote on it, but they did exist in less strictly Democratic states as well since even the most monarchial monarchies often felt the need to consult the people.
The New Testament usage is not unrelated to the Civil Government usage, The Church is the Kingdom of Heaven, and Christ is King but even in The Davidic Monarchy the King still had to involve The People, indeed Ekklesia is also used in the Septuagint to translate equivalent Hebrew Words, as well as in Stephen’s Description of the Mosaic gathering of the people in Acts 7. And there are hints in the New Testament of the local Ekklesia making decisions democratically.
So the first argument for Congregationalism is that only Congregationalists don't need to massively add to the meaning of the Biblical word they're named for. The word itself was inherently an expression of Democracy in Ancient Greek. Meanwhile Episcopas was not a word Monarchists would use for a Monarch and the closest similar word used in a political context was an example of representative democracy.
Most ancient Oligarchical forms of Government originated as Councils of Elders including pre Solon Athens and Sparta, either the heads of all of the Tribes families, or the heads of the aristocratic ruling families like Parliament's House of Lords. A Council of Elders is what the Latin in origin word Senate actually means etymologically, and it’s also what the Sanhedrin is in Numbers 11 (Josephus called it the Senate of the Jews). A council of Elders can play a role in how a Democracy functions, but it shouldn’t be the final and certainly not the only authority.
The Episcopalians’ main argument is that they have a lot of precedent on their side, the Church had been pretty Episcopal for well over a thousand years, you can’t even conceivably blame Constantine for this one. Indeed I don’t think one single big bad is to blame, though Ignatius of Antioch is the earliest Church writer we have who explicitly argued for Episcopalianism. Ignatius gets referred to as a student of the same “John” who Polycarp was a student of, but the oldest sources on Polycarp being a student of a “John”, Irenaeus, Tertullian and Papias, mention only him and not Ignatius, and Ignatius in the letter he supposedly wrote to Polycarp makes no mention of them having a shared mentor, and neither refers to a “John” as their mentor in any of their own authentic writings. Papias the oldest source on Polycarp and this John clearly distinguishes him from John The Apostle calling him John the Presbyter.
Some supporters of Episcopalianism will admit that originally Churches founded by Peter and Paul were Presbyterian (I don’t even think they were that) but claim that "Johannian" Churches in Asia were Episcopalian, basing that largely on Ignatius and Polycarp. However Polycarp in his one letter refers to himself as one Episcopas among a group. But either way something starting in Asia isn't a good sign since Paul referred to Asia departing from him, and in Revelation 2-7 most of the Churches in this region have some doctrinal problems. I'm not the only person to argue that Episcopal Polity is the Doctrine of the Nicolaitans.
The second century seems to be the key transitional century for the rise of Episcopalianism, some have argued it was a “necessary” development for dealing with the Heretics, needing an authoritative leader to refute and oppose them. These Heretical sects were often founded by individual Heretics with a bit of a cult of personality around them like Cerinthus, Maricon and Valentinius. So the "Proto Orthodox" responded to the Heretics by imitating their tactics.
But the second century was also the century over the course of which Platonism supplanted Stoicism as the leading Metaphysical Philosophy of the Greco-Roman World, including the beginning of its influence on Christianity.
In Stoicism and Early Christianty I argue that the Early Christians were somewhat Stoic, but Stoics who were socially and morally more like the original Stoicism of Zeno rather than later Roman Stoicism. Zeno was born a Phoenician on Cyprus but he founded his School in Athens. The original Stoics were people who’s criticism of Athenian Democracy was that it wasn’t Democratic enough, they wanted full Gender Equality and the abolition of Slavery, as well as a Socio-Economic system we would today call Communist. This lines up well with Paul in Galatians 3 who says that in Christ's Ekklesia there is no distinction between Male/Female or Free/Slave or Jew/Gentile (Native/Immigrant).
However Xenophon, Plato and Aristotle were Athenians who HATED Democracy, they idolized many aspects of Sparta (though in The Laws attributed to Plato the Athenian blames Sparta for the spread of the Homosexuality he wanted to stamp out). Aristotle of course broke with his former teacher on many things, and his books on Politics criticized both of Plato’s constitutions, he praised Sparta but ultimately gave higher praise to Carthage and Solon’s Constitution. It was actually Xenophon who was the most unconditionally in-love with Sparta.
Plato’s Republic gets misconstrued as Communist because it technically has no Private Property, but it is still very much a class based society, there was no discussion of liberating the Slaves. In The Republic the Monarchy of a "Philosopher King" is Plato's ideal but an Oligarchy of "Guardians" is the acceptable alternative in the absence of a perfect ruler, and so I suspect Platonized Christianity gave rise to both Presbyterianism and Episcopalianism. The Republic's Communalism was only for the elite class of Guardians not the common people which I think may play a role in where Monasticism came from. Plato's Statesman also argued for Monarchy being the ideal.
Part 2: Applying Ecclesiastical Governance to Civil Governance.
Protestants applying their views of Church Government to Civil Government started before the Reformation proper actually, when we look at the history of Proto-Protestantism, John Ball and his Peasant Revolt was contemporary with John Wycliffe and the Hussite Reformation was soon followed by the Taborite Rebellion.
Then not long after Martin Luther’s message had developed a big following Thomas Munster led an Anarcho-Communist revolt in Germany, then Luther being the evil scumbag he was ordered the Aristocratic Feudal Lords he had converted to his new doctrine to put them down, and there were other Anabaptist revolts as well, but by the end of the 16th century most Anabaptists were absolute Pacifists.
It was Rebels seeking to empower Presbyterianism who were the first to gain success with Zwingli making his preference for Aristocracy clear followed by the Dutch Revolt that started in the 1560s. And then the English Revolutions of the 16th Century only empowered Parliament (the Presbytery they’d had since long before the Reformation) not the People. Though more genuinely Congregational rebel groups were involved like Gerrard Winstanley’s Diggers.
Over in the Colonies New England was founded by Congregational Puritans, and Pennsylvania by the even more Congregational Quakers. But Maryland was founded by Catholics and the South by Royalist Anglican Cavilers loyal to the Jacobite Monarchs. In a way the American Civil War was a long delayed Sequel to the English Civil War. Atun Shei Films has a video on Puritanism that acknowledges both their good and bad points. It was also under the influence of Puritans like Richard Bernard that England under Cromwell ended it's ban on Jews that had stood since the 13th Century.
In the 17th Century English Revolution different people's positions on Ecclesiastical Polity lined up pretty consistently with their positions on Civil Governance, the Catholics and Anglicans were the Monarchists, the Presbyterians were the Parliamentarians and the Puritans and Quakers were the Democrats.
Later on plenty of Protestants would become openly explicit in not wanting the same kind of Governance for The State they do for The Church. Alexander Hamilton’s Federalist Party was religiously speaking dominated by the New England Congregationalists, a denomination founded on Clerical Localism, so why were they so opposite politically? Well they still had the Puritan Attitude that the State should regulate Morality, so they wanted a strong Federal Government regulating public morality, and that's what Hamilton and Adams promised them.
But it's also noticeable that in-spite of their voting base being Congregationalist the leadership of the party was largely Episcopalians, Hamilton, James Wilson, Gouverneur Morris, Robert Morris, Rufus King, Charles Cotesworth Pickeny, John Rutledge, Edward Rutledge, George Walton and William Samuel Johnson. And then there's Patrick Henry who was a rare Federalist who had been an opponent of ratifying the Constitution. These are largely the same people Eric Nelson talks about in Royalist Revolution who wanted the office of President to be King in all but name. There were Congregationalists who ultimately sided with the Democratic-Republicans like Samuel Adams, Josiah Bartlett and both representatives of New Hampshire at the Constitutional Convention. John Hancock never joined either Party but his concerns about the Constitution clearly showed Democratic-Republican leanings.
Modern Evangelical Dominionists will talk about how the phrase “Separation of Church and State” comes from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to a Pastor, and say it explains how it's there to protect the Church from the State not the other way around. The historical context they are leaving out is that this was a Baptist Pastor, and back then Baptists were very much still a minority religion even in the State they had founded. And the Boston Congregationalists especially hated the Baptists remembering Roger Williams as an Apostate from their Church. Jefferson was promising a minority religion protection from the majority religion in bed with the then ruling Party.
I don’t feel like retreading all the Roger Williams territory here, I recommend John M. Barry’s book Roger Williams and The Creation of The American Mind.
Roger Williams and John Clarke weren't the only association the Baptists had with the fight for Freedom of Religion, it goes back to the founders of the General Baptists John Smyth and Thomas Helwys, and after them Richard Overton of the Levellers during the English Revolution and John Leland contemporary with the American Revolution. Nor are they the only association the Baptists have with the Abolitionist movement, Elhanan Winchester was a prominent early American Abolitionist as was Morgan John Rhys, Slavery in the British Empire was finally outlawed as the result of a Slave Rebellion in Jamaica lead by Baptists called the Baptist War, and Charles Spurgeon also strongly opposed Slavery, and George Washington Williams is also worth mentioning as are Amos Tuck and Edwin Hurlbut. The Randalite Free Will Baptists were also known for their opposition to Slavery Then in more modern times the PNBC was important to the Civil Rights Movement. The Southern Baptists were originally very much the atypical Baptists, breaking off from the the oldest American Baptist Church (the one founded by Williams and Clarke) because it opposed Slavery, it was a long complicated history that made them the largest Protestant Church in the U.S. And even today while Southern Baptists are America's largest single Baptist Denomination they are still less then 50% of the total.
However the Quakers became even more virulent abolitionists.
But let’s go back to the discussion of France. John Calvin himself made a Christian argument for Regicide during the French Wars of Religion. During the French Enlightenment, of the key Philosophs who died before The Revolution broke out, the only one who was a Christian was Rousseau who was raised Calvinist went Catholic for a while but then returned to Calvinism. He was also the only one who was a Communist rather than a Liberal. He is a key transitional figure in the Secularization of Communism as unlike prior Christian Communists his argument for it was Secular. Montesquieu was however not as hostile to religion as Voltaire and did use The Bible in his writings, though exactly how has been misrepresented by certain Evangelicals.
The French Revolution was the beginning of the Secularization of both Democracy and Communism, and at the same time the final stage of them being seemingly separated from each other.
France was the first place where certain ideas that began as inherently Protestant were slowly able to be considered by Catholics, and eventually non Christians. Partly this is because of the French perspective that people like Calvin provided to the Reformed Tradition from the beginning. Partly it's because Rousseau was good at making his ideas sound appealing to those who don't share his Faith. And partly it's because a lot of the Philosophs and early French Revolutionary leaders were kind of Anglophiles.
Contrary to popular stereotypes about the French Revolution, it was initially lead more by Christians (mostly Catholics but some Protestants) some were even clergy, the Atheists and Deists were present from the start but it took them years to take over. These Christians include Emmanuel Joseph Sieyes who authored the Revolution's original Declaration of Independence, so too probably were his allies Baily and Lafayette. Jacques Necker and other Calvinists from Geneva. Jean-Paul Rabaut Saint-Etienne who authored France's first Edict of Toleration. Claude Fauchet who originally lead the Cercel Social where he first argued for a Rousseau inspired Democratic reorganization of the Gallican Church. Henri Gregoire, Antoine-Adrien Lamourette, Pierre Claude Froncois Dauno and Jean-Baptiste-Joseph Dobel who were important supporters of the Civil Constitution of The Clergy. And Jacques Roux who was the leader of the actual Communists of the Revolution (the Jacobins were all Classical Liberals) the Enrages.
Same was true for the English Sympathizers of The Revolution which include Richard Price, the Christian Communist Thomas Spence and the founders of modern Unitarianism Gilbert Wakefield and Joseph Priestley.
There is a neat video on YouTube about how Rousseau's radical Democracy came from the local largely informalized Democratic values of his hometown of Geneva.
Well the Geneva that Rousseau grew up in was a product of Calvin. The Regional Synods of we usually associate with Presbyterianism came from others not Calvin himself, Calvin organized a local Church Government for the city of Geneva, in the grand scheme of things he may well have been more Congregationalist then people assume.
Thursday, March 3, 2022
Capitalism is Atheistic in Nature.
Thursday, August 20, 2020
The New Testament is Collectivist not Individualist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eijYEYzAQu0
In the modern world Indivdualism is associated with certain ideologies that in America at least are generally classified as Conservative. Now a lot of these people are Conservative Atheists, Ayn Rand was an Atheist, she knew her brand of Individualism was utterly incompatible with proper Christian values. But some of these Conservatives are Christians like Jordan Peterson who's technically Canadian but the thing about Canada is if your a Conservative in Canada you probably obsess over America in reaction to how much Canadian Liberalism is founded on hating America.
However a more obscure figure in the modern YouTube Right is a channel called TIK who have made some interesting videos on Hitler and Mussolini being one of the few YouTubers interested in acknowledging their differences, both are bad but they had differences that make Hitler worse, however being better then Hitler is not a grand endorsement. In one video of his I watched he talks about the history of states and power systems from his POV and then says Jesus introduced the concept of the Individual. So I assume that means to him the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament is that the Old Testament is Collectivist since it's about Israel and the New Testament's innovation was that now God made Covenants with Individuals not a Collective.
This view of the New Testament doesn't hold up. Anything you can make sound Individualist about the New Testament was already there in The Torah, the punishments already punished individuals for example. The actual innovation of the New Testament is that it's expanding the Collective, or rather returning God's focus to all of Adamkind.
The TNAK starts out about all of Humanity, the first 10 and a half chapters of Genesis. And on occasion YHWH reminded Israel that he still cares about the rest of the world like in Ezekiel 16 (the parts about Sodom) and Daniel 2-7.
In Matthew Jesus talks about gentiles entering the Kingdom before some of the Children of the Kingdom, that's not an expression of Individualism but of outsiders being let into the Collective.
Paul in Romans 5 talks about all being made Sinners because of one Man's Sin, but then all being made righteous because of one Man's righteousness, similar to how he discuses Death and Resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15. Then in Romans 11 he says the fullness of the "Nations" will be grafted into Israel and then ALL Israel shall be Saved. And that God consigned ALL to disobedience so that He might have Mercy on ALL.
Elsewhere The New Testament talks about The Church being the Bride of Christ and Body of Christ and Temple of God. Inherently Collectivist symbolism. Even when Paul brings our Individual being Individual Temples of the Holy Ghost in 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 and 6:18-20 it's tied into that grander doctrine and clearly arguing agaisnt Lockean Self Ownership (or Body Ownership as some modern libertarian prefer to rephrase it) our Bodies are ultimately owned by God but also collectively shared with the rest of the Community of Believers.
It was the advent of Calvinism V. Armianism that laid the foundation of Individualizing The Gospel, in both those systems Salvation is a covenant with an Individual they only disagree on who to give the agency in that Covenant. ColdCrashPictures calls Objectivism "Prosperity Gospel for Atheists" an analogy that immediately reminded me of my own calling Existentialism is Atheistic Arminianism.
But not all Collectivist Ideologies are good, Fascism is very Collectivist as is Nationalism. That's why I stress how The Gospel is an Inclusivist Collectivism.
It was Gerrard Winstanley who introduced Universal Salvation to the Modern-English speaking world, and he was also a Communist. What untied the true Gospel and Communism so naturally is that both are founded on the true Collectivist perspective of The New Testament.
Sunday, March 8, 2020
The Morning Star of The Revolution
John Ball is someone who was condemned as a Heretic by the Organized Church in 1366, over a decade before Wycliffe. His teachings (the ones we know about at least) do not seem interested in traditional Protestant concerns. Instead he anticipates the Taborites, Petr Chelčický, Thomas Muntzer and other Anabaptists, and then Gerrard Winstanley and the Diggers of the English Revolution.
John Ball's preaching was a major inspiration for the Peasants' Revolt of 1381. Here are the most important Quotes.
So indeed I think John Ball can perhaps be called the Morning Star of the Revolution.
- My good friends, things cannot go on well in England, nor ever will until everything shall be in common, when there shall be neither vassal nor lord, and all distinctions levelled; when the lords shall be no more masters than ourselves. How ill they have used us!… They have wines, spices and fine bread, when we have only rye and the refuse of fine straw; and if we drink, it must be water. They have handsome seats and manors, when we must brave the wind and rain in our labours in the field; but it is from our labour they have the wherewith to support their pomp.… Let us go to the king, who is young, and remonstrate with him on our servitude, telling him we must have it otherwise, or that we shall find a remedy for it ourselves.
- Typical sermon, described in the Chronicles of England, France, Spain, and other places adjoining by Jean Froissart
- When Adam delved, and Eve span, who was then the gentleman? From the beginning all men by nature were created alike, and our bondage or servitude came in by the unjust oppression of naughty men. For if God would have had any bondmen from the beginning, he would have appointed who should be bond, and who free. And therefore I exhort you to consider that now the time is come, appointed to us by God, in which ye may (if ye will) cast off the yoke of bondage, and recover liberty.
- Sermon at Blackheath (12 June 1381), quoted in Annals, or a General Chronicle of England
The first confirmed documented references to the figure of Robin Hood are from the 1370s, during this same era of social upheaval. It's always speculated he could have been an Oral Folk Hero for ages before then, but given this cultural context it would make sense to me if the concept was in fact born then. One detail of Robin Hood often ignored in modern depictions is his Anti-Clericalism, while still a very Pius Christian.
Occasionally a Conservative or Libertarian will try to say that "Robin Hood didn't steal form the rich and give to the poor, he stole from the King and gave the money back to the Tax Payers". This of course is a very inappropriate application of modern ways of looking at things to Medieval Feudalism. Not the only time they do this, they love to equate "King" with "State" to make Feudalism seem more similar to Socialism then Capitalism. However the modern Conception of a Nation State is a product of the post Reformation phase of the Renaissance. The Kings of Medieval Europe simply were the highest level of Feudal Nobility, they were wealthy Lander Owners, the Kingdom was the Domain of the King, like the Pharaoh's of Egypt all land was basically his personal property.
So in fact the concept of Robin Hood fits in well with what John Ball was preaching. Whether the figure is actually older or not I think this era's climate definitely played a role in the story's popularization.
Tuesday, October 29, 2019
Why do we ignore Gerrard Winstanley when talking about the lineage of people who've taught Universal Salvation?
I can't help but suspect that it's because so many of them come out of American Evangelicalism and are thus still a little tied to American Political Conservatism. So the fact that the person who introduced this Gospel into the English Speaking world was also one of the founding fathers of Communism isn't something they want to emphasize.
But it's a natural connection to make in my view, so many of the points from Jesus' parables about how God isn't a respecter of Persons or of Meritocracy which definitely imply Universal Salvation when applied Metaphysically, also utterly condemn the foundational logic of Capitalism when applied to this life. And I feel both those applications are important to what Jesus wanted us to take from them.
When Peter Hiett is preaching on Revelation and explaining what "Pornea" that Book is really condemning, it's like he's coming so close to arguing that the Whore of Babylon is Capitalism, but can't quiet go all the way.
Yet the failure to connect these two things also happens on the other end, "Liberation Theology" seems to have become a Sadducean tradition, so they aren't bringing up Gerrard Winstanley either.
Update: In a Facebook group I was provided these links.
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=eebo;idno=A66686.0001.001
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/winstanley/1652/law-freedom/index.htm?fbclid=IwAR1uKpsJgwVUx4X_QePIUn1pgVfU4A5etY3442A8agt4NDSm_dMtc9uOnZs
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A66685.0001.001?view=toc&fbclid=IwAR2sBqz1nB3kXAYL85fMQ0lFUgmzc8RWI3z-WfHPjWWV8wC5LQlHCnmanno
http://www.diggers.org/diggers-ENGLISH-1649/NEW-LAW-OF-RIGHTEOUSNESS-1648-Winstanley.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2mb_Z_awI2FP9M3UEkqdRj5xKRqXRESlIMUHziASp5F2WOb26Z6iHtx24
Friday, August 30, 2019
Christian Communism
If you're also teaching that Christians shouldn't get involved in secular politics at all, that we should be separatists like many of the old Anabaptists, then you can make that argument while remaining intellectually consistent. But if you're a Dominionist, or an Amillennial/Post-Millennial teaching that the Church is supposed to be ruling the world right now, or that America was founded to be a Christian Nation and should be governed by Christian Values. you can't then ignore the clear evidence that Communism is a Christian Value.
Another objection is to claim this was peculiar to just the Jerusalem Church and we should actually view the Jerusalem Church as a failure. This is very silly on many levels, there is no Biblical Evidence that other Churches didn't follow the example of the Jerusalem on this. Roman A. Montero in his book All Things in Common: The Economic Practices of The Early Christians demonstrated from the the historical records that the Early Church continued this practice all through the Pre-Constantine era, it wasn't just the first generation.
The Protestant Reformation did not begin with Martin Luther, many came before him.
The problem with beginning it with Luther is that starting then makes it a very Top-Down Reformation, not just in England, Luther befriended many Princes and Dukes of northern/eastern Germany, and the movement also won over William of Orange and Christina III of Denmark. Meanwhile in Switzerland Calvin took over Geneva and Zwignly took over Zurich, and the French Hugenots were lead by the Bourbons and the house of Navarre. What separated Luther from his predecessors was he had the shrewd Political acumen to make his message appealing to the Nobility, and that's why modern Capitalism was largely born out of this Top-Down Reformation.
Luther's Predecessors on the other hand were all Socialist to some degree, all at least teaching that the hoarding of Wealth was incompatible with a Christian Life. From the Waldensians to the Lollards (like John Ball) to the Hussite movement where Petr Chelčický and the Taborites both taught Communism in different forms.
After Luther came more Communist Protestants like Thomas Muntzer, but Luther was firmly against them, he was in the pocket of the Rich. And during the English Revolution came Gerrard Winstanly and the Diggers.
It wasn't till the 1700s that Atheists and Deists started forming a Secular version of Communism.
Monday, May 8, 2017
KJV Only Universal Salvation!!!
This post isn't just for KJV only people however, but anyone who refuses to accept the specific Translation Error arguments that Universal Salvation proponents make. These issues all have their roots in the Vulgate and were inherited by Luther's German Bible and all early English Bibles, and probably also French Bibles. So I can understand refusing to accept that the True Gospel was inherently incompatible with the only Bibles the Western Church had for well over a Thousand years.
The KJV says "Endless" only twice, in neither does it refer to judgment or punishment or torment. 1 Timothy 1:4 is about genealogies and Hebrews 7:16 is about Endless Life. And it is only things like Jesus' Kingdom that are described as being "without end".
It is still in the KJV that "Hell" is cast into the Lake of Fire and yet elsewhere the Lake of Fire seems to be what is called "Hell". There is more then one Bethlehem in he KJV, and more then one Kadesh. So likewise there can be more then one place called "Hell".
What we've overlooked is that there are different ways to define "Eternal" and Everlasting which is a synonym for Eternal in the KJV. I've seen many non Universalist Christians (like Chuck Missler) define "Eternity" as being not unlimited or endless time but as being outside of time. And so remembering how I showed back before I was a Unviersalsit that the fire of the Lake of Fire comes from God. Perhaps there is room to define the Fire of Gehenna and the coming Judgment as Eternal because it comes from Eternity, and not as an indication of how long it lasts.
Which can again be backed up by how the KJV translates Jude 7.
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."That Fire is not still raging in the Dead Sea area today. And again Ezekiel 16 assures us that Sodom will be restored. And Jude 6 uses Everlasting of the angels' chains while also telling us that imprisonment will have an end.
If it's the Fire being described as Eternal or Everlasting, that's because the Fire is from God in Revelation 14, God is a Consuming Fire. But Malachi 3 explains the fire is to purify and purge, same as 1 Corinthians 3.
And in some verses maybe the key to the Universal Salvation interpretation isn't even how Aionion is translated but how to understand other words in those passages. Take the KJV of Matthew 25:46.
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."This verse doesn't even mention fire or Gehenna it just says the Punishment (for other verses remember Damnation meant judgment or punishment in 1611) is everlasting. Well in the Ancient world a common Punishment was Exile or Banishment. Which is consistent with my argument that "Outer Darkness" means outside New Jerusalem. Now the fire is mentioned earlier in verse 41, but again sometimes exile or banishment was in addition to a more brief physical chastisement.
Other options for the Punishment or Judgment could be a loss of Citizenship or inheritance, or maybe losing a reward you'd previously earned. Whatever it is it needs to be understood in the context of the KJV telling us in Habakkuk 1:12 that God's Judgment is for Correction, and Psalm 30 that his anger is for but a moment.
Even in the KJV no Torment or Torture is ever directly described as Eternal or Everlasting.
And the only place where "for ever and ever" is used in connection to the judgment of normal humans is Revelation 14:11 where it says the Smoke goes up forever, terminology also used of the Judgment on Babylon in Revelation 19:3 drawing on Isaiah 34:10 showing it can be used of a temporal judgment. It is in Revelation 20:10 only used directly of the Devil's sentence to the Lake of Fire, though The Beast and False Prophet being there is mentioned.
And a lot of popular Universalist Proof texts I absolutely default to quoting in their KJV version, from Romans 5&11 to the things Jesus said. And as such my other posts on this blog tend to use the KJV when I quote them, or I had the KJV in mind if I only referenced them without directly quoting. In fact with 2 Peter 3:9 and 1 Timothy 2:4 the KJV version is the most explicitly Universalist version, other translations of those verses try to allow some wiggle room, but the KJV says God "Will have All Men to be Saved" and is "not willing that any should perish" no ifs ands or buts about it.
Luke 2:14 is also very Universalsit in the KJV in a way that's undermined by how others say it should be translated.
KJV onliers who oppose Universal Salvation arguably have a little hypocrisy on this issue. Because most KJV onliers, especially if they're also Baptists, teach that we're not under The Law anymore, that it was done away with because it was Fulfilled by Jesus. But the KJV of the Pentateuch and other parts of the Hebrew Bible tend to say The Law and the Aaronic Priesthood and the Feasts and the Sabbath will be "forever" or "perpetual". The Hebrew uses Olam, the Hebrew equivalent of Aion which means Age, and so many of us point that out, but the KJV onliers can't do that. But the KJV in the New Testament has Jesus say that the Law and the Prophets were until John, and Paul says that we're now in the age or dispensation of Grace not the Law, and that the Law was a curse and imperfect.
Maybe God's Judgment/Punishment/Damnation(Which meant Judgment in 1611) on Sinners is described as seemingly forever for the same reason The Law was? A Judge can issue a Life sentence that is latter commuted, but that doesn't make it wrong to say the sentence was for life.
And I find it interesting in this context that the post Reformation revival of Unviersalsit thinking largley started in the English Speaking world, after the KJV was published. With men like Gerrard Winstanley. Many claim the Geneva Bible was still popular during this era, but being as that was a Calvinist production I highly doubt it translated Aionion/Aionos or the Hell verses differently then the KJV.
So, I think a Universalist interpretation of even specifically the KJV is perfectly viable.
Everything below this point is really not the main topic of this post and is really a giant Post Script.