Tuesday, April 2, 2019

I'm not interested in whether or not I agree with the Seven Ecumenical Councils.

 First, for people who don't know what I'm referring to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_seven_ecumenical_councils

I want to state that this goes both ways, I'm not so Anarchic that I'm gonna act like whatever decision the councils made must be wrong, that attitude also gives them too much power.  I feel like I basically agree with the main Theological decisions of the first four Ecumenical Councils, but those Councils also made smaller decisions on things like Church Hierarchy that I can't get behind.  The issue around which the 6th Council was convened I haven't even looked into enough to know if I'd have an opinion on it.  The rest are issues I have and will continue to look into on this Blog.

To me The Bible is not just the Final Authority but the only Authority. Now people will point to Acts 15 as Biblical Support for the idea of Church Councils.  First of all that Council was attended by The Apostles, I've already refuted the notion that Apostolic Authority can be passed on.  So this is the only Council that has Apostolic Authority, and it's decision and historical context is recorded for us in Scripture.

But secondly, even if you convinced me some Councils, like the Pre-Nicene/Pre-Constantine ones, mattered even a little bit.  The Ecumenical Councils wee in direct violation of passages like 1 Corinthians 6 and Matthew 18 that forbid Christians from turning to Civil Authorities to settle disputes.  It doesn't matter if a head of state is a Christian, their authority is Civil not Ecclesiastical.  The Council of Nicaea was presided over by Constantine himself, and the Bishops asked him to do it, maybe because they felt he'd be a neutral party.  Constantine was not Baptized till he was on his death bed.  To me Baptism has nothing to do with Salvation, but to most Ecumenical Council affirming Christians you at least have to be Baptized to be considered a part of The Church.

The second Ecumenical Council was convened by the Emperor who first made Christianity the state religion of the Empire for the purpose of defining what his new state religion was.  The first Council of Ephesus basically became two councils and it was Theodosius II who decided which one was right.  Chalecdon wasn't even headed by a Bishop but by a committee of Senators and government officials  The 5th Ecumenical Council was entirely a product of Justinian's misguided agenda to try and fix the Chalcedonian schism by further pushing away the Nesotrians and others who were simply associated with them.

So for this reason the Ecumenical councils are the least authoritative councils not the most.  They are The Church marrying the State, the Sin of Pergamos.

There is also debate about how many of these even fit what the word "Ecumenical" is supposed to mean.  The first two councils held in Constantinople had less then half as many attendees as Nicaea.  For Nicaea Constantine had invited 1,800 Bishops, 1000 in the east and 800 in the west, but only 318 max showed up.  Now it'd be easy for a moderner to throw a "if you don't vote you can't complain" argument at those who didn't attend, but maybe the majority of Bishops actually understood the Biblical Arguments against doing a council like this I laid out above.  Only 5 Bishops represented the entire Western half of the Empire.

One Bishop known to be missing is Lyon's, Lyon was the oldest Church in Gaul the one founded by Irenaeus and other immigrants from Asia Minor but principally Smyrna in the second century.  But neither Maximus of Lyon or Tetradius of Lyon attended instead Gaul was represented by a Bishop of a much less significant city, Nicasius of Die.  We also know Britannia had 3 bishops at this time including one for York, but whether or not any attended Nicaea is disputed.  But it's not just looking West, East of the Empire there were Papa bar Aggai and Simeon Bar Sabbae leading the Church in Babylonia/Persia, there's no evidence they attended the council either.

The 7th and last Council had only 35 attendees and no Frankish Bishops were represented which agitated Charlemagne.  Only Chalcedon had significantly more attendees then the first one, and that was still only 520.  The 3rd and 4th Councils caused Schisms, not even everyone who attended consented to their outcomes.

The fact is I don't consider any of the issues these Councils debated all that important to whether one is a "True Christian" or not.  Now ultimately nothing besides if you call Jesus Lord and believe He's the Son of God matters to if you're a "True Christian" or not.  In other words there pretty much are no false Christians in my view, I firmly believe that because of 1 John 4:15 and 1 Corinthians 12:3.

But even after that the issues discussed at these Councils are not at the top of the list of issues I consider it important to be right on.  Being right on the issue of The Bodily Resurrection and Soterology are certainly above them in importance based on 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 5.

Some of my allies on Universal Salvation insist they don't want to make it a core essential doctrine of the Faith, and yet are certainly Ecumenical Christians to some extent.  To me being right or wrong on this issue is ultimately more important even then if you're right on The Trinity.  And after those two vital issues I may even consider the Virgin Birth and Pre-Millenialism more important then The Trinity.

Again to be clear my view of the Trinity is a Nicene one, especially in the context of my research into Old Testament Trinity passages.  But I am sympathetic to those at the Council who weren't even slightly Arian but still uncomfortable with the word Homusias because it was Unbiblical and condemned by an earlier Pre-Nicene council for it's association with Modalism, and some claim it was Constantine himself who insisted on this word being in the Creed.

And there are some passages like Hebrews 1-2 that I'm not sure how to refute the Arian interpretation of.  So I can't consider people like Arians or Unitarians damnable heretics, especially not the ones around today who are with me on Universal Salvation.

I know I may be reinforcing the notion among critics of Universal Salvation that it is a heresy by  admitting to it making me feel some kinship with Untarians and Mormons.  But my point is you should consider Salvation more important whatever your position on Salvation is.  And no Universal Salvation is not a reason for me to break with the Ecumenical Councils, the 7th and final one declared Gregory of Nyssa a "Father of the Fathers", and numerous people have already debunked the notion that Universal Salvation was condemned by the fifth council.  (It's not an Ecumenical Council but the council of Orange condemned both Pelagianism and Double-Predestination equally.) C Baxter Kruger very strongly ties The Trinity to his view of Universal Salvation.

Soteorlogy was not directly the subject of any of the Ecumenical Councils, though I know Ryan Reeves likes to explain how it's all indirectly relevant. But the fact is none of these hard to understand nuances of Theology or Christology matter so long as you simply believe what The Bible says about Jesus being without Sin and dying for our Sins and being Risen to a Bodily Resurrection.

Protestant Christianity is divided between three different positions on the Councils.  The Anglican Church and I think some others uphold all Seven of them.  Some other High Church Protestants like Lutherans uphold the first four but not the last three.  (I'd like to know more about their reasons for doing so, I haven't looked into it yet.)  And then there are people like Independent Baptists and the Hebrew Roots movement who like me don't feel bound to any of them, though too many of those take the overly contrary attitude I also warned about at the start.

I've coined the term Justinianity for all denominations that uphold the fifth Ecumenical Council (to my knowledge there are none that keep the 5th but drop either of the final two).  That's Roman Catholicism, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church, and maybe some others.

5 comments:

  1. Why would one listen to anything presided over by the papal beast?
    All of it is anti Christ.

    ReplyDelete
  2. The verse previous is wrongly translated by vaticans' dragon serving liars also
    For Pauls says not that we strive and work hard to please him
    For only by faith in Jesus can we please God not by works striving to be approved
    For the verse says

    Therefore also we are dearly loved and honoured precious to him at home or away from the body well pleasing him be

    But the lying false translation says

    φιλοτιμούμεθα (philotimoumetha) — 1 Occurrence
    2 Corinthians 5:9 V-PIM/P-1P
    GRK: διὸ καὶ φιλοτιμούμεθα εἴτε ἐνδημοῦντες
    NAS: we also have as our ambition, whether
    KJV: Wherefore we labour, that, whether
    INT: Therefore also we are ambitious whether being at home

    For by faith only one pleases God not by striving to please but by grace through a gift of faith, so the one good work is to believe in the one God sent.


    5389 philotiméomai (from 5384 /phílos, "lover, friend" and 5092/timḗ, "acknowledged honor")

    philos: beloved, dear, friendly
    Original Word: φίλος, η, ον
    Part of Speech: Adjective; Indeclinable Numeral (Adjective)
    Transliteration: philos
    Phonetic Spelling: (fee'-los)
    Definition: beloved, dear, friendly
    Usage: friendly; subst: a friend, an associate.

    And

    Of high preciousness valued

    5092 timḗ (from tiō, "accord honor, pay respect") – properly, perceived value; worth (literally, "price") especially as perceived honor – i.e. what has value in the eyes of the beholder; (figuratively) the value (weight, honor) willingly assigned to something.

    G5092 - τιμή timḗ, tee-may'; from ; a value, i.e. money paid, or (concretely and ... Lexicon :: Strong's G5092 - timē ... Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry.
    Strong's Greek: 2472. ἰσότιμος (isotimos) -- held in equal honor
    https://biblehub.com/greek/2472.htm
    Anonymous View
    Strong's Concordance ... Cognate: 2472 isótimos (from 2470 /ísos, "equivalent, equal" and 5092 /timḗ, "assigned price, value") ... STRONGS NT 2472: ἰσότιμος



    Wether at home in the body or away from it we are pleasing ( to) him be
    Not because of our works and striving to become a beloved loved friend highly honoured precious and well pleasing to him but because of his love towards us making us acceptable in the beloved
    pleasing to him in the beloved is the sense
    One ( or he ) for all of us appeared before the judgment seat as must as was neccesary the christ to provide for all ( the world) for the sake of the body ( the church) for the things continually done wether good or bad.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Cont

    Good meaning dead works of law ( the law being holy good and true) and bad meaning sins.
    Now a rightiousness from God has been revealed apart from deeds of the law
    A rightiousness that is by faith in Jesus christ from first to last.
    Not by deeds not of ourseleves but a gift by grace theough faith in the only rightious one Jesus the Son of God.

    How much more shall the blood of christ cleanse our consciences from dead works?( dead deeds/ works of law)



    He who believes is not judged
    but what then is this judgment seat of christ therefore invented by false translation of the word of God?

    A judgment of those who believe? It is not true at all!

    Holding to the truth is what he commends those faithful for
    He who believes shall not be judged is what Jesus said

    So as those who believe in him as he says are Not judged
    They are not to be judged for deeds done wether good or evil
    For then you would be being judged for sins!
    For surely evil deeds are sin?

    ReplyDelete
  4. Cont

    And also seeing as Jesus THE christ is the atoning sacrifice for our sins but not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world, then
    if unberlievers (who are guilty of sin indeed because they do not believe Jesus is the son of God ) were judged to condemnation for their sins then how could they be blessed in the last judgment and given entry into the kingdom based upon their deeds?

    For this saying is trustworthy and true
    That God is the saviour of all men but especially of those who believe ( that Jesus christ is the son of God)


    So, Denying his word by false translations of his word is not a faithful work.

    Paul rebuking the church said
    By now many of you should be teachers!

    Like John who was a teacher and like Paul an apostle himself
    Who said
    You have no need for any man to be your teacher
    For you all have an anointing from the holy one and know all things.
    How i wish the church taught the truth!
    And how much Jesus wishes for them to repent unto acknowledgement of the truth.

    Jesus said he who loves me shall guard my word.
    For at least and before 500 years who has guarded it?

    ReplyDelete
  5. UPDATE - THE WORD TRANSLATED RECOMPENSE MEANS TO PROVIDE FOR

    There are Lying translations IN ALL BIBLES DONE BY THE VATICAN ANTICHRIST

    GOD SHOWED ME AND CORRECTED 2 corinthians 5-10 ΠΡΟΣ ΚΟΡΙΝΘΙΟΥΣ Β΄ 5:10 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550 τοὺς γὰρ πάντας ἡμᾶς φανερωθῆναι δεῖ ἔμπροσθεν τοῦ βήματος τοῦ Χριστοῦ ἵνα κομίσηται ἕκαστος τὰ διὰ τοῦ σώματος πρὸς ἃ ἔπραξεν εἴτε ἀγαθὸν εἴτε κακόν The true reading is

    ONE ( tous) for all of us appeared before the judgment seat as neccesary THE christ that provided for all ( everyone) for the sake of the body( believers) For all deeds habitually done Wether good or evil.

    He by dying for us all Provided for every one the things done in the body wether good or evilhttps://biblehub.com/strongs/greek/2865.htm

    They lied and instead wrote ( leaving out the first word ONE entirely! And adding (of) christ when it is THE christ. and moving the word meaning behoves ( necessary) to be before the judgment seat instead of after bema , and not telling us the word recompense can mean to provide for

    AND SO CORRUPTED THE MEANING Having it read as follows

    For all of us must appear before the judgment seat of christ To be paid back ( recompensed) for all the things done in the body wether good or evil

    They left ONE blank!! https://biblehub.com/text/2_corinthians/5-10.htm

    TOUS can mean one or he ONE https://biblehub.com/strongs/greek/3588.htm

    ΠΡΟΣ ΚΟΡΙΝΘΙΟΥΣ Β΄ 5:10 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550 τοὺς γὰρ πάντας ἡμᾶς φανερωθῆναι δεῖ ἔμπροσθεν τοῦ βήματος τοῦ Χριστοῦ ἵνα κομίσηται ἕκαστος τὰ διὰ τοῦ σώματος πρὸς ἃ ἔπραξεν εἴτε ἀγαθὸν εἴτε κακόν

    The below verse is Pauls agument given to him by revelation through the spirit of christ showing what God has done in christ justly justifying the one who believes Jesus is the son of God

    If by the spirit you put to death the things done in the body you shall live

    He by the eternal spirit gave himself up once for all The rightious for the unrightious The just for the unjust God in christ Justifying all through and by faith in christ He died so Those who believe in him and are so are in his new covenant in his body and blood, he died (was lifted up ) so those who believe in him May have eternal life. In him we have redemption the forgiveness of sins . He who believes in him is not judged. Yet this being true and even with the word bema means judgment seat Nobody looked to see how they had for the last 500 years got away with lying against the truth. The only ones possible to have done this is the vatican the great city she sits on many tongues/ languages and rules over the kings of the earth and so had access to infiltrate government academia and corrupt bible translation committees with the lying pen of the scribes.

    ReplyDelete