In the Greek speaking Church those two things were primarily characteristic of the Alexandrian School. And indeed Augustine was known to have communicated with Cyril of Alexandria, and Cyril also taught Endless Torment.
And so ought we to reckon for ourselves; for to endure patiently, and maintain the conflict with courage, brings with it great reward, and is highly desirable, and wins for us the blessings bestowed by God: while to refuse to suffer death in the flesh for the love of Christ, brings upon us lasting, or rather never-ending punishment. For the wrath of man reaches at most to the body, and the death of the flesh is the utmost that they can contrive against us: but when God punishes, the loss reaches not to the flesh alone;----how could it?----but the wretched soul also is cast alone; with it into torments. Let our lot therefore rather be the honoured death; for it makes us mount up to the commencement of an eternal life, to which of necessity are attached those blessings also which come from the divine bounty: and let us flee from and despise a life of shame; a life accursed, and of short duration, and which leads down to bitter and everlasting torment.From his Commentary on Luke Sermon 87. The correspondence between Augustine and Cyril further confirms this (Letter 4*).
Sometimes Cyril has been cited as a supporter of Universal Salvation, but that is based on his reference to the Harrowing of Hell, which plenty of enemies of Universal Salvation do still believe in.
Don't forget that the text of the Apocalypse of Peter that removes the reference to the eventual Salvation of all Sinners is the one found in Egypt. I have argued that that scene was in the original version.
Alexandrians who were okay with Universal Salvation like Clement, Origen and maybe Athanasius were okay with it in-spite of their Alexandrianism not because of it. With Cyril we see there were counter examples among the Alexandrians, but I can't find any counter examples among the highly Literalist Antiochene School. Even the Cappadocians' support of Universal Salvation seems to reflect closer affinity to Antioch then Alexandria, Cappadocia was not far from Nisibis and Edessa where offshoots of the School of Antioch existed during their lifetime, and Basil had been Bishop of Caesarea, home of another related school, and Gregory of Nazianzus obtained the position of Bishop of Constantinople with the help of Meletius of Antioch.. Gregory was also critical of Origen on some issues. Among the Antiochians who strongly opposed the Allegorical approach of Origen was Eustathius of Antioch who was at the Council of Nicaea and a strong ally of Athanasius in opposing Arianism, he blamed Origenism for Arianism, Eustathius's possible support of Universal Salvation is disputable.
Athanasius does seem to be an exception to the general rule among prominent Christian figures of Alexandria in general, his writings rarely quotes anything outside The New Testament and the few times he discuses Greek Philosophy he doesn't seem to have understood it well. Maybe he wasn't a Literalist in a similar way to the Antiochians, but he was different from other Alexandrians.
It was the Alexandrian acceptance of Plato that opened the door for the endless punishment doctrine taught in The Republic to creep into the Church. That Eternal Torment seemingly took the longest of any Platonic ideas to catch on in even the Alexandrian Church is all the more evidence of how Unbiblical it was.
Plato's later dialogues like Republic, Timaeus and Laws are thought to be heavily influenced by the Pythagoreans, Pythagoras was said to have spent some time in Egypt. Plato also presents his family as passing down knowledge Solon learned in Egypt. Clement of Alexandria himself claims Pythagoras and Plato got many of their teachings from the Egyptians.
The Ancient Egyptians believed the Hearts of the Impure were devoured by the monster Ammit condemning them to eternal restlessness.
The Bible itself gives good reason to trust Antioch over Egypt when it comes to Church History. Acts strangely doesn't record an Apostolic Church being set up in Egypt at all, but Antioch is where Believers were first called Christians, and where Paul started most of his missions, and we know Peter was there for a time thanks to Galatians.
Many will accuse Universal Salvation of being something taught to appease the world, but to me it looks like the secular world, even specifically the politically and socially liberal or leftist world, doesn't actually object to hell that much. The Horror Genre is now unwilling to settle for just death, they have to literally depict people going to Hell, like in Drag Me To Hell, or American Horror Story The Coven. I watch a lot of YouTube Video Essays about popular culture from fellow SJWs, (Like Renegade Cut's Little Shop of Horrors video) and they're often obsessed with wanting actions to have consequences, ya know like the Hindu concept of Karma. And some fans of The Last Jedi think Kylo Ren is beyond redemption.
What they find offensive about specifically Evangelical Christianity is the notion that Belief is the sole or primary determining factor. That it might be possible for a believer to lose Salvation, but impossible for someone who never believed no matter how nice they were to avoid Hell. And these Christians sadly think that idea is how to separate Biblical Hell from the Egyptian concept of Ammit.
My old Second Resurrection post wasn't directly about Universal Salvation at all, simply arguing that there may even be some Unbelievers who aren't cast into the Lake of Fire to start with. But since then my views have shifted a bit on the Lake of Fire. Now I like to stress how backsliden believers will have it worse on the day of Judgment then those who never Believed based on passages like Luke 12.
But what's really controversial is that I'm even contemplating the possibility that after death/resurrection punishment is only for Believers. Jesus paid the full price of Sin, which was death, but those who enter a covenant relationship with Him take on certain responsibilities in addition to the benefits of that decision. I'm not willing to state this definitively yet, but I see reasons to suspect it could be the case.
Which opens the possibly that some Nazis won't qualify at all, we can debate Hitler himself endlessly but some Nazis certainly hated Christianity, and wanted people to think Hitler was with them on that hence the dubious quotes in Table Talk. And nothing is more offensive to the Left right now then suggesting Nazis could get off scottfree. Oh and pretty much none of Japan's war criminals were Christians.
But I suppose they'll still find that preferable to the typical Christian view that whether or not Hitler gets into Heaven the Six Million Jews he killed certainly won't.
Why include that rant in a post mainly about associating the mainstream doctrine of Hell with Egypt? Because lots of Conservative Christians see Egypt in The Bible as often representing The World. Hence why Chad Schafer's book is doing so well. So I'm showing that endless torment and/or annihilation is the doctrine of the Egyptian World.
He who believes shall NOT BE JUDGED
ReplyDeleteHe who believes shall NOT BE JUDGED
ReplyDeleteHe who DOES NOT BELIEVE SHALL BE CONDEMNED
He who rejects the son shall not see life
You wanna cite Scripture on that please?
Delete